66. Reclaiming Joy: Why Fun Matters for Women After 35

When was the last time you had a night out that felt completely worth it?

In this episode, Amy is joined by 'The Jodie's’, Jodie Whelan and Jodie de Vries, founders of House of Zim; a women-only events concept redefining what a great night out looks like for women over 35.

Overview

Between careers, children, responsibilities and the constant pressure to optimise our lives, joy can quietly slip down the priority list. And when getting out requires organising childcare, coordinating diaries and reshuffling life’s logistics, the stakes feel higher. If you’re going to make the effort, it needs to be worth it.

House of Zim was built around that idea - "a guaranteed good night".

Together, they explore why women-only spaces feel different, what actually happens on a dance floor when women feel safe, and how music reconnects us with parts of ourselves that may have been pushed aside.

The conversation moves beyond events into something deeper; identity, permission, friendship and the courage to prioritise what makes us feel alive.

If you’ve ever wondered when you last danced, laughed freely or did something purely because you wanted to, this episode will resonate.

Key takeaways

How the loss of 'joy' sparked the idea of creating 'House of Zim'
What 'House of Zim' really means, and who it's for
The psychology behind music, memory and connection
Building a brand aligned with values and the misconceptions
How women-only spaces shift energy and confidence

Guest

Jodie Whelan and Jodie de Vries are co-founders of House of Zim, a Sydney-based women-only events concept designed for women over 35.

With backgrounds in brand and marketing, they’ve combined strategic thinking with lived experience to create thoughtfully curated, early-evening dance events that prioritise connection, nostalgia and joy.

House of Zim https://houseofzim.com/

Transcript

Amy (00:02)

Welcome to the Really Good Conversations podcast. Today I'm joined by the Jodies, Jodie Whelan and Jodie De Vries, friends, sister-in-laws and co-founders of House of Zim, a women-only events concept rethinking what a great night out looks like for women over 35. Today we're talking about the role of fun, the power of women-only spaces and what it takes to design a guaranteed good night -- and also what it is like building a business together. Welcome to the podcast, ladies.

The Jodies (01:04)

Hi, thanks for having us.

Amy (01:06)

Thank you. It's so lovely to see you and thank you for bringing your dancing vibe, the energy to this podcast. So our listeners can't see that, you when I dialed in the ladies were there enjoying a good old dance, well and truly living at their brand. I'd love to obviously chat to you about House of Zim, what you're creating and the journey you've been on so far and where you're heading. But tell us firstly, a little bit of the origin story and was there an exact moment for you where you realized fun had perhaps slipped off your radar in your lives.

The Jodies (01:43)

Yeah. So, Jodie and I used to own a business together, a branding agency. Jodie still has it, Tiny Hunter. And I stepped back from that about four years ago. Life was too busy and I have two young children. Jodie has three young children and it wasn't too busy for her, but I know we've all got different limits. And so I stepped back and decided to have a little bit of time out and I sort of was mulling over, I was wondering, will I go back in? What else did I want to do? And part of me thought, well, you know, I'll go off and be independent. But actually, I did keep coming back that I wanted to work with Jodie again. And I'd been through the whole, you know, burnt out wellness rituals, all of that, and they helped. They did. But then at some point, I really just started feeling like I wanted to lean back into fun again.

And so Jodie was very supportive and she'd come out to me with all these nights out. And we found that we were going to this one particular bar in the city. We loved it. We knew that it was always going to be great music, but it didn't get good until later on in the evening. And also there was a lot of young people there and young people are lovely. And God bless all the 20 year old women who want to wear crop tops and have fantastic bodies. But I was just perhaps in a place where I was like, Ooh, this is making me feel a bit old.

So, yeah, I sat across from Jodie in a cafe and was like, I know you're really busy, but might you want to start a guaranteed good night out for women who are 35 and over? And that really was as simple as that. We knew that we wanted women to have a crowd that they could relate to. We knew that we wanted it to be music that you know and love. So we're particularly passionate about 90s and 2000s house and pop. And we knew that we wanted it to be a good venue.

So, know, no sticky floors, places that respect your age and that you feel like you're gonna have a good night in.

Amy (03:48)

Brilliant. And what made you decide to go down women only specifically?

The Jodies (03:55)

Women are the best. Sorry. I just think, well, there are lots of places that you can go to that are for everyone. And we wanted to create something that was special. And I guess, you know, all our girlfriends, they want to catch up with each other, spend time together. So it was creating a space for that, but where they could make new memories instead of talking about the old memories. And I think there's just really a special kind of magic when you get a whole group of women together just having fun, let their hair down. I don't know why, but it's just different. Yeah, there's a certain kind of freedom.

Amy (04:30)

Absolutely. Yeah. And when I first heard the concept and Jodie, we'd met at a networking thing last year and I was just like, yes, he totally resonates with me on this. Yeah, you know, I turned 40 in October, which I actually celebrated at your event, at your October event, which was amazing. So I can definitely vouch for being a tried and tested attendee.

Yeah, it was when you get to this sort of age and perhaps you're not going out as much as you were. There's other responsibilities, you know, we've all had the hangovers and such. Like, it's not really worth the next day. And I always say this, that phrase, borrowing the hours of the next day. You know, if you stay out after midnight now, it is like, God.

The Jodies (05:15)

Yeah, that's right. So our next event runs seven till 11 PM. Yeah. And we're really specific about the type of venue that we want because by the time that you've, if you've got kids, you're organising a babysitter, maybe you need help with your parents or you've got to do something with your pet, you know, and then you've got to get all of your friends together into the same timeline that it's going to work for. It's really annoying if you go out and have a shit night.

So if you're going to do it, you want to make sure that you're going to have a guaranteed great night out. So that's what we're really, we're very discerning about the venues that we use. We only ever use female DJs. Mostly we're using DJs who are in that 35 plus age bracket. We have got one who we just really love. She's a bit younger, but we still forgive her. It is hard to find good female DJs. So if anyone is thinking of doing it, do it. And the other thing, you know, earlier I spoke to that whole, just felt like I was ready to lean into fun and I didn't want to stay in this sort of serious mindset. Jodie's talked about this before. It's like, take supplements, do squats. Are you talking to your children enough? What connection method do you have with your partner? Are you getting eight hours sleep? Are you timing it on a ring or a watch? And it's like, Jesus Christ, we'll just go out and have a good time because actually if you look at any study to do with wellness, all those come lower down and at the top, is walking and dance. Yeah, that is the best thing. And you're out with your friends, you're making new memories. That was one of the things we also talked about. Sometimes you get into this catch up. Yes. And so you meet and you're just telling each other what you've done. And also often, let's be honest, women of a certain age complaining about all of the things you're having to do when you're stressed about. And so we really like the idea of just letting women create new memories. And we always say living a hell yes life. That's what we want. That when somebody sees our event, it's a hell yes answer. Like you said, you saw it and were like, ooh, this really resonates with me.

Amy (07:17)

And it's so funny when you were just saying there reeling off the list, it does sometimes feel like it's a full-time job now just to sort of stay alive, just to adult, you know, it's like between the, well you've got to be getting the meditation in, and the journaling, and make sure you're moving for exercise. And if you actually look at all of the other great tips and advice and all of this and wellness, you're like, well, if I do all of those things, what am I actually doing any work or doing the, you know, shopping and the cooking and all of that? There's definitely that freedom feeling, I think, just generally dancing. And I know myself when we were on your dance floor in October, a girlfriend who's got two little ones now, and she actually said to me, she was like, this is the first time I feel alive and like me. I think since, you know, since having the children. And I think because we are in that, you know, if you do have children more so, but obviously if you're just busy with other things in life, you're constantly thinking about those things. And we put ourselves to the bottom of the pile, really, that our fun can come when there's time for it.

The Jodies (08:19)

Yeah. Yeah. I think women spend a lot of time thinking about the shoulds. And sometimes when I'm talking to women and I'm just like, you can do something just cause you want to, you know that, right? And it feels shocking and it's shocking that that feels shocking. It shouldn't. We need to go out and have fun.

Amy (08:37)

Absolutely. You mentioned as we were starting that you guys come from a brand and marketing background. The name House of Zim, where does that originate from and what does it mean to you?

The Jodies (08:48)

Yeah, well, so Zim means my song, my joy. And then we knew that we loved that word. And then we just had a bit of a play and an experiment. And then we loved the idea of House of Zim because it, you know, I know it sounds so trite, but we do really want to build a community of women who respect that pursuing joy is important. I just got given.

I just got given a voucher for a massage and it's one hour massage and that's lovely. But I know that it was $160. And in my head, I was like $160 for a massage. That's one hour. I mean, women come to House of Zim and it's $99 and they get four hours of joy and they're dancing and they get to hang out with their mates and you know, there's all these things. So I just think it's interesting thinking about putting something as simple as dancing and just going after joy at the...

the top of your list that is going to be good for you. But we just feel really passionately about that.

Amy (09:48)

Absolutely. And what do you think women are actually releasing on a dance floor that they don't have space or time to release elsewhere?

The Jodies (09:56)

I think it's like, I mean, I do love a massage too. You don't get me wrong. You know, I think it's like you were saying before, it's like a freedom of spirit thing. It's like tapping into that kind of carefree, like when you're young and you're just not thinking about it, it's like going to a different place. I think it's freedom.

Amy (10:15)

I think there's an element and I'm actually getting goosebumps now actually, because I think some of the tunes, as you said, it is tapping into some of those songs. So it is almost bringing back those memories as well. When you hear the song, takes you back to some of those nights out at whether it was other friends or, you know, university, college, whatever that really, it was like you had no responsibilities.

The Jodies (10:37)

Yeah. It's in your bones. It's so true. It's that whole remembering who you are and feeling alive things, tapping into something that's just been a bit squashed for a while. Yeah. I was just going to add, Amy, you know, when you hear a song and you can't help but throw your hands in the air, or you have to go, I love this song. And that feeling is so, it's just an instant dopamine release. It's so good. or dopamine hit, I guess, but yeah, I just think it's really important. And I've been thinking about going into a bit of a scientific space, but I was reading a study the other day, and it was saying about how people that dance are that much more empathetic and closer to their friends, because when you're dancing, you have to innately watch the other person see what their body's doing. You're looking at their facial expressions and the joy or, know, if sometimes if they're awkward, hopefully not.

But you're sort of learning all of those things. So your empathy is building and also you're feeling that much of a stronger connection to your friend. And dance floors are really powerful for that. And they have been dropping away. So there's a lot of research coming out at the moment. Because now you see the memes of sort of old dance floors back in the 90s. And now somebody goes to see a DJ and stands there with their phone.

Amy (11:54)

Yeah, and they're still not fully immersive in it because they're like, they're doing it to either record it so your attention split or then they're immediately sharing it on social media. So then you're like, you're sharing this for others, not just for yourself.

The Jodies (12:10)

Right, yeah. So it's so lovely to just be there, be with your friends, have that moment in time to just focus on each other.

Amy (12:19)

Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit further about you two working together because obviously friends, previous business owners together, and sisters a lot. I mean, you can't really get away from each other.

The Jodies (12:29)

She follows me everywhere.

Amy (12:32)

What do you two see that you both bring to the party? You know, do you have clear - right, you're that sort of roles and responsibility on this? How does the dynamic work?

The Jodies (12:42)

She's in charge of delusional optimism. I'm a reality check. The reality. I don't think I'm a pessimist, but you know. That's exactly what might happen. Her brother says to me all the time as well “I'm not a pessimist. I'm a realist.” That's true. I am sometimes a bit of a delusional optimist. I do think you need that in business, I think you need absolute conviction in what you're doing to last the distance.

Amy (13:15)

Yeah, absolutely. I love that. And how do you make decisions when you disagree?

The Jodies (13:21)

Yeah, that's a good one. Because we do, we're quite different. We're different in our approaches to working. So Jodie is a very deep thinker and deep research. And I like a lot of research, but I, what was that word? A satisficer? The maximiser and the satisficer. Is that what it is? So a satisficer is like, sometimes people can go too deep and they'll spend all this time researching and figuring out.

But in doing all of that, once you make your decision, it's like you've got more information behind you to sometimes doubt that decision. The satisfier sort of goes and looks about and figures it out. And then it's like, yep, I'm going to go with that. And then they don't really have a question in their decision because they haven't got all that other information. I do. I like to move fast. Jodie, she likes to think about things longer and she will slow me down when it is needed. And it absolutely is needed sometimes. But I don't think we really disagree on big things.

No. So really interesting about music though, because obviously music is a really important part of house music. And I'm 44, Jodie's 48. So just that four years /of when we went out/ I think we grew up on different continents. I'm UK. So I think there's songs that are really like, I don't know, ones that you're really passionate about. I'm like, I've heard that before. I didn't think of that. Yeah. And vice versa, obviously.

Amy (14:46)

Course yeah that I didn't even think of that.

The Jodies (14:50)

So we have a lot of good, robust conversations around music. But we always figure it out. Yeah. We're pretty lucky.

Amy (14:57)

Also what's important in any sort of business working partnership, whether it's your actual business or you're just in a team together, is you've taken the time to understand the different working styles and understand where your strengths or differences lie for sure. I could definitely relate to what you were saying because I Alex and I are the same. I'm probably the researcher, the over-researcher and then get stalled where Alex will, you know, the shoot from the hip and just do things and make them happen. But then sometimes without any research. then you're like, ummm.

I'm going to ask you a couple of myth busters. What's the biggest misconception about women only events?

The Jodies (15:35)

That they're for lesbians. The amount of people I get messaging me asking that and I'm like, no, I mean, lesbians are more than welcome, but it's just women having fun with women. And I won't reveal who said it, but a man said to Jodie, so there's not going to be men and women will still have a good time. Nonplus that straight women would want to go out just by themselves. I just was like, honestly, it's so good. It's so much fun.

Amy (16:08)

And we touched on when we spoke the other week, Jodie, that it's not until you go, you realise how you never realise, not that there's an issue with men in a bar or a nightclub, but actually just when it was completely same sex, that extra level of just total relaxation. know someone's not going to, shall we say, pick you up or you're going out and then somebody's trying to talk to you and really, yeah, you're out with your mates and you're trying to catch up with them. You're not looking to necessarily make new mates.

What do people assume about women 35 plus that you think is completely wrong?

The Jodies (16:42)

That they need to do more, that they need to be more productive or manage their emotions better to be happier and satisfied in their life. I just don't think that's true at all. I think they should have the emotions they need to have. And I think they should go at the pace that they need to go at. And I think they should definitely put House of Zim in that mix. Shameless self-promotion.

Amy (17:08)

Yeah, I love it. And what's the most unexpected thing women have said to you after one of the events so far?

The Jodies (17:16)

God, we've had so many good comments. I mean, a woman came up to me and said that she hadn't had that much fun since her wedding, which was, thought 15 years ago, but actually 20 years ago. And I'm just like, that's wild. Like that is really wild. You know, she said that her cheeks were hurting from smiling. It was such a good time. That was unexpected and really beautiful to hear. And we've also had women come up to us and say, my God, I feel like we found our tribe. And that lady, well, there was actually three of them, but so they must've been late fifties, I think. And I've definitely been feeling when I've been going out, I don't feel as comfortable as I used to. And so I can only imagine, you know, with a few extra years on that, that it might feel even more so. But they were amazing on the dance floor, you know, they, they wanted to jump around and have a lot of fun and they really felt like they were allowed the space to do that there. So it was great. Yeah. Maybe the most unexpected thing was the woman that said, can I bring my 18 year old daughter? Yeah.

Amy (18:16)

Once you can actually notice that you're too young for this.

The Jodies (18:20)

I said, I'm so sorry. really want the women coming to understand the crowd that's going to be there. But I love that she was like, this is so good. I want to bring her, but no, not allowed.

Amy (18:31)

This is our space now, you know, it's back our time. And what you said, Jodie, then about, you know, that person saying that maybe the last time they had that much fun was their wedding. Actually, yeah, the reality is that now, you know, we're in our 30s, 40s, some of the time, opportunity to dance, to go out is like, it's a wedding. It's a wedding. Or it's some other function, whether that's again, I don't know, location, proximity, obviously finances. Again, if I think back to those university days and just after.

The Jodies (18:49)

Totally.

Amy (19:00)

You know, you're out two to three times a week. Yeah. And it was a very clear, you know, Thursday was at so-and-so, Friday there, Saturday there. And, you know, it was literally that's what your money was being spent on really. And then outfits to go out. I think, yeah, other life kicks in.

The Jodies (19:17)

The thing is though, yeah, when you're going out all the time, you know, there's lots of fun to be had, but when you're not going out as often, it's too unpredictable. So it's like, maybe there was a good DJ last week, maybe this week there's no DJ. So it's so hit and miss. And that's kind of disappointing if you're not going out.

Amy (19:32)

And the friction, like you said, that logistics to go or organise things, people just put it in their, it's just, too hard basket to bring it all together. And then they're missing out on the fun.

The Jodies (19:42)

Totally. I mean, before we started House of Zim, I always used to say what you were saying about weddings, you know, the only time you really get to have a good dance these days is weddings. And I'm like, now I'm going to have to wait for second weddings.

Amy (19:53)

And then a bit of a downer, but it's a funeral.

The Jodies (19:56)

Honestly, that's what we used to talk about. But now, I mean, we do House of Zim once every two months. We obviously understand that women aren't going to be going out all the time. But I think it's really lovely, as Jodie said, to know that it's a guarantee that you're not really taking the gamble. Whether it's going to be the right music or that the crowd are going to be okay.

Amy (20:18)

Well, before I jump into asking you three of our Really Good Conversation card questions, and you can both answer this or one of you, but does a conversation come to mind that has either changed the direction of your life or had a profound effect on your life?

The Jodies (20:34)

Yes, can I ask? I feel like I'm jumping in. Well, for me, that would be when I first interviewed with Jodie. I'd come to Australia and I was meant to be traveling, but I loved it so much I thought, perhaps I'll stay. I had to convince my best mate who was with me. And I knew that I had six weeks to try and find a role that would sponsor me to stay in Australia. And I'd been going to these interviews and I just hadn't clicked, I really wasn't finding anybody that I liked. I was talking to a lot of recruiters and then I saw this one ad that talked about a shiny disco ball in their studio and that they loved the way that the light hit it and that they were drinking affogatoes and they were, you know, they all were like a family and all different stuff. Anyway, I answered it, but I was like, you know what, I'm just going to go all in. So my cover letter was like, I love disco balls. And I sort of really let all my personality out.

And then Jodie rang me personally because she had responded to the way that I had written, but I thought she was a recruiter. So I was a little bit like not really leaning into the conversation. So I was so over talking to recruiters. And then when I actually arrived at the studio and we got talking, it was just an instant click. And so then Jodie hired me with a view to sponsorship and she did. She allowed me to stay in Australia. She introduced me to her brother who also worked for her.

I then married him, I have my children. So really, this person changed everything about my life. And in the years where I stepped back from Tiny Hunter, which I will say, when you're running a business together, it's really hard, you'll know this. And to tell Jodie that I was stepping back was honestly one of the hardest things I've ever done because I believed in that business and I didn't want to leave it because I know it's really stressful.

Amy (22:05)

That's amazing.

The Jodies (22:25)

But I needed to do that for myself and that's a hard thing for women to do as well. And Jodie was incredible. And I'd go out with her afterwards and be like, I don't know what I'm doing. And I'd feel like the shell of a person and I just don't know. And she always had time and space for me and we'd go on walks and figure it out or we'd have wine or we'd go out dancing, you know, and she just always was there, even though I'd said, see you, I'm just going to leave you with that business.

And then when I went back to her and said, hey, do you want to do something else, even though you're really busy? She was like, yeah, sure.

Amy (22:58)

I love it. And it's amazing to create that friendship relationship with each other. So yeah, it's super inspiring.

The Jodies (23:05)

Talk about how good I am. No.

Amy (23:07)

The other Jodie is kind of like, yeah, you married my brother, so I kind of have to be nice to you because…

The Jodies (23:15)

She could have married him sooner, so I didn't have to pay all that money to make her a permanent resident.

Amy (23:24)

Brilliant. Right. Well, I'm going to put you on the spot and you can both answer these or however you feel from our really good conversations.

Question number one, describe yourself using only three words.

The Jodies (23:33)

What's in the deck?

Gosh. Curious, loyal, determined.

I'll pass.

Amy (23:52)

You're like, yeah, yeah, those ones for me as well.

Question number two, what is one piece of wisdom you want to pass on to future generations?

The Jodies (24:00)

I mean, when I think about what I want to pass on to my kids, it's like save money, invest, buy property, do all those things earlier. I think that's the only thing that I think about that I'm like, I wish my parents had talked to me about any of that sort of financial side of things. I would be much further ahead if I had. Yep. I'm ever the delusional optimist, kind of the opposite. I want my kids to know that, I guess, really understand that money isn't the be all and end all and that you can find happiness in somebody who makes you tell me, feel calm and going outside and looking at a tree. You know, I sort of do a little bit on the opposite side, I like money too.

Amy (24:44)

Can you balance each other out? The children will be cousins.

The Jodies (24:48)

Yeah, exactly. The aunties do both sides.

Amy (24:50)

Go to the alternate aunties for some, you know, grounding and some blue sky thinking as well. So, love it.

Question number three, if you came with a warning label, what would it say? And you can both answer this one.

The Jodies (25:04)

I mean, should we answer it for each other or for ourselves?

Fun. I think mine would say “very excitable”. I think get a bit over excited. Yeah, yours would say very excitable, PS, get some phone insurance. Yeah. I've lost a lot of phones over the years that the business has had to pay for because I'm so excited. I'm not thinking about where my phone is.

Amy (25:26)

You need to reduce it to just the dummy phone. That's all you get. If you keep losing them, that's what you have.

The Jodies (25:32)

You know what I think mine would say? She might have a poker face, but she really does like you anyway. It is hard to get past Jodie's poker face. For the first year of knowing Jodie, you're going to be like, does she like me? I'm not really sure. But actually she'll be loving you, but she's just got this, she's like an iceberg, you know, only a little bit above the water and so much underneath.

Amy (25:53)

Wow. I think for me, you see all of my emotions, reactions over my face, I'm probably not good at hiding.

The Jodies (25:59)

Well, you know, we're very opposite. Yeah, are. We've got nothing in common. What are we doing here?

Amy (26:06)

Yeah, this is how it works though. Brilliant. Well, and the last question I love to ask all of our guests is if you could ask someone a question dead or alive, who would it be and what would you ask them?

The Jodies (26:17)

You go, we've, we've talked about this and I love your answer. The first one of the second one. Okay. Well, the first thing that comes to mind for me. So my father passed away a long time ago and my mom is quite sick with dementia. And I think you take for granted when you're growing up, all the stories that they talk about family history, what's happened in their lives. And we just had a moment, me and my siblings, where we were like, had a question and we were like,

We've got no one to ask. So I think I would just say to my dad, tell me everything, like tell me all about your life. But this time I would take notes.

Amy (26:55)

Beautiful. Did you want to add one, Jodie?

The Jodies (26:59)

Well, I can add it because I'm sort of part of your family, but these guys had a great granddad called Albert Whelan and he was from a really wealthy family. They were Jewish and he fell in love with a Catholic girl. And so he left the family and he was disowned. He was disowned. But he went on to become really famous in the UK. He was part of the Royal Variety performances. He was famous for whistling, which sounds so random these days, but it was a big skill back in the day. And yeah, he went on, Is Your Life. He had a beautiful book. He was really renowned. And so we just like to hear about what that was like and was it worth it? And did he think about that sliding door moment? Was it worth it walking away from all the money for the love? Jo would say, yes. And I'd say, that would have been good security.

Amy (27:50)

That's the thing, every time they maybe would have had an argument or disagreement, you'd be slightly like, I could be now, you know, chilling on a yacht, not dealing with you.

The Jodies (28:00)

Exactly.

Amy (28:02)

Brilliant ladies. Thank you so much for your time today and everything that you've shared. Give us just a quick snapshot of what's on the horizon for House of Zim in 2026 and, you know, a bit of a shout out of where people can find more information on, on you guys and events and such.

The Jodies (28:19)

So we're at www.houseofzim.com and we're on Instagram and Facebook and we've just started on TikTok. We are hoping to launch a podcast this year, which is really exciting. Just get everybody talking about, you know, how to find joy in their life and how to bring that out at this stage in your life. And we're also creating merchandise. So we've got two awesome t-shirts at the moment, but lots more design in the works and I'm very passionate about creating like a little party capsule wardrobe, you know, these gorgeous glittery jackets and some sequin pants. And yeah, we're excited to do that too.

Amy (28:58)

Brilliant, well best of luck with it all and I look forward to seeing you guys on the dance floor soon.

The Jodies (29:03)

See you then!